Episode 82 of The Informed Life podcast features a conversation with researcher, author, educator, and coach Indi Young. Indi was one of the founders of pioneering UX agency Adaptive Path. She’s the author two influential design research books: Mental Models and Practical Empathy.

Indi’s been working on a new book called Time to Listen, which was the focus of our conversation. She described her current work as a “systemic structure for us to use to build more inclusive products.” Specifically,

build more products that create support for different thinking styles instead of trying to create one product that sorta kinda goes for an “average user” under the large part of the curve in the marketing documentation. I think that the average user is a complete myth.

Rather than look for an average user to search, aim to “discover who people really are.” During our conversation, Indi used the analogy of a jawbreaker, a huge candy that has many hard layers around a “crystalline center.” Like the candy, we all have layers that surround our inner cores.

Time to Listen promises to help researchers get to people’s crystalline centers so we can create products that better serve them. I’m looking forward to reading the book — and I hope you get value from this conversation.

The Informed Life episode 82: Indi Young on Time to Listen